Woodland Walks podcast

You are listening to Woodland Walks, a podcast for the Woodland Trust presented by Adam Shaw. We protect and plant trees for people to enjoy, to fight climate change and to help wildlife thrive.

Adam: Well, this month I'm off to Grantham in Lincolnshire, which is a bit to the right of Nottingham and quite a bit below Sheffield, if you're not clear on your geography. Anyway, I'm here to investigate a Woodland Trust project called Nature's Calendar, which tracks how the seasons are changing over time and if, for instance, the timing of spring is starting earlier. Now, if that is happening, that's not a minor thing, because all of nature depends on, well, the rest of all of nature. So if one thing changes, it can cause big changes everywhere. Now, this is all part of citizen science, and if you don't know that phrase or haven't heard it before, it means the data is collected from people of all ages, backgrounds, abilities, not necessarily by scientists, in fact, probably not by scientists. Anyone can volunteer and the volunteering work is incredibly important. Volunteers have been recording the changing seasons with Nature's Calendar for 20 years, and the database they have built contains 2.9 million records. It's believed to be the longest written biological record of its kind in the UK, and it's used by researchers from across the world to explore the effects of weather and climate on timings in wildlife. And a brief word for those who like new words, here's one for you: phenology. That's what this project is all about. The study of seasonal changes in plants and animals from year to year. Phenology. Now, that word was invented by a botanist called Charles Morren in around 1849. But even before they had a name for it, people were busy recording what was happening in nature and Britain was really at the forefront of much of this work. Robert Marsham was Britain's first phenologist, doing his work before the name was invented for his field of study, and he recorded his quote ‘indications of spring’ from around the year 1736. Anyway, all of that is a huge historical meander so let's get to the events of today with a real meander around Londonthorpe Woods with one of the Woodland Trust's experts.

Here we are. Whenever you’re ready!

Sally: Okay, I'm Sally Bavin. I'm a monitoring and evaluation adviser for the Woodland Trust and we are currently at Londonthorpe Woods, near Grantham.

Adam: Right, well, thank you very much for joining me here. It's a chilly day, but we're good on the, we're good on the rain for the moment. So what is the purpose of what we're doing here? Where are you taking me today and why?

Sally: We've we've come out to the woods today to enjoy some of the wellbeing benefits of visiting woodlands and particularly looking out for signs of spring using all of our senses. So, yeah, it should be quite a quite an enjoyable one.

Adam: Fantastic. And this fits in with part of a campaign the Woodland Trust is running. Is that right?

Sally: Absolutely, yes, so we have at the moment we're asking people to look out for the vital signs of spring, as we're calling it. So we've picked out three things of interest that are frogspawn, the song of the song thrush returning for the spring, and the first blackthorn flower.

Adam: Right. And that's what we're going to try and spot today.

Sally: We will have a go. Yeah, we might be a bit early for some, but this is the the interesting thing to see what's out and about at the moment.

Adam: And on a previous podcast we were here together looking to sort of identify trees. I'm going to be super impressed if you can identify birdsong as well. Are you good at that?

Sally: Well, I know the song thrush. That's the one we're listening out for *laughs* so I'm not too bad. You'll have to test me as we go along.

Adam: Okay, so we're at Londonthorpe Woods, which is, happens to be near Grantham, which is where the Woodland Trust is actually based. So all very lovely. Which way?

Sally: I assume we’re editing lots of…

Adam: No, no, no, all this confusion is, is in *both laugh*. That way.

Sally: Okay.

Adam: Right. If you're hearing noises off, it's because Alex from the Trust is joining us. She's part of the brains of the operation and also doing social media videos. So I'm gonna look particularly daft with my, headset on, talking into a little box. Anyway, so, okay well, we're already leaving the woodlands. That was a quick visit. We're crossing the road. Is it because there's a pond over here?

Sally: Yes. So the first thing we're going to look for, is frogspawn. And as we are walking towards the pond, I could tell you about some research that the Woodland Trust has funded, but let's wait till we get away from the road.

Adam: I was gonna say we just crossed not a very busy road that got very busy as we were crossing it. Okay, let's go through here, away from the road and into another bit of woodland.

Sally: So I think to get to the pond, I think it's that way. And then that way.

Adam: Okay, you're not filling me with confidence. You've only taken two directions, and you're not sure of either of them at the moment, but okay *both laugh*

Sally: Yeah. So as we're walking along, the idea is to be using all of your senses to engage with the landscape that we're in. So I’ve just seen a robin fly past there, but, yeah so…

Adam: But robins aren’t a sign of spring?

Sally: They sing all year round, they're a good constant through the winter. Thank goodness for the robin otherwise we wouldn't really have much birdsong in the winter at all.

Adam: And they look lovely, robins, but actually they're they're quite territorial, they've, a lot of them come to my bird feeder in my garden and they're, they're proper brave! I mean, I'll go out and the robin looks at me like, come on, get the nuts out, get the seed, they're not scared. They're quite territorial, looks like quite territorial birds, I think. But go on, you you were wanting to tell me?

Sally: So one of the birds that we're listening for is the song thrush. That is because, it's a bird, which generally, it starts singing early spring, and it's a species that's been recorded for Nature's Calendar for many years now. So it's one that we're asking people to look out, to listen out for even, engaging all your senses, because it's quite a distinctive song, so if we do hear one, then that would be great.

Adam: And then where do they go then, in the winter, then, migratory, migratory, oh, gosh, I can't even say that word properly. But anyway, they're not always here, perhaps is a better way to describe them.

Sally: We do have resident song thrush, but it's the singing behavior that starts in the spring.

Adam: Oh does it? And is that all about attracting, you know, mates?

Sally: Yeah, yeah, it's the the springtime rush for romance, yeah.

Adam: Right okay and is it the boys or the girls doing the singing? Or is it both?

Sally: I believe it's the males, but, yeah, I’ll have to check that one.

Adam: Okay. I'll check.

Sally: It's usually the males.

Adam: Is it? Okay.

Sally: But the robins are the exception where females and males both sing.

Adam: Actually, do you know what? I've got such a bad memory, but I, we came here, and I remember stopping at this tree because I think you were explaining to me, was it, a little, I've forgotten the name, but the things that you crush up and make ink with that Shakespeare used to write in.

Sally: Ah, oak galls.

Adam: Oak galls! Oak galls. And I think they were around here. No, this is not an oak?

Sally: No…

Adam: Okay. But this is, that's right, I think oak galls, which was a great little episode all about, and I've got one on my desk still from this woodland.

Sally: Oh, you’ve not used it for writing yet?

Adam: I haven't ground it up to try and make ink, no. Anyway, sorry, I was interrupting. So yes so so the birds don't leave us, but they do start singing, right? A very muddy bit.

Sally: Very muddy.

Adam: Okay, you might hear some squelching. Oh, blimey.

Sally: So that's some good sensory experience there as well all the squelchy mud.

Adam: Okay, so tell me a bit about, this woodland that we're in whilst we're going up to find the pond.

Sally: So this is Londonthorpe Wood. It's the closest woodland to our Grantham head office, which is lovely. It was it's a woodland creation site, but it's getting, on I think it's roughly about 30 years, probably since it was planted now. So, it's really, you know, well established now, we can start to see lots of different types of habitats. We've got some glades, which is open areas within the woodland, with some nice grassland habitat. There's some dense areas, like these sort of thickets of blackthorn, which we could be checking for blossom. I can't actually see any at the moment yet. I think we're perhaps a bit too too early.

Adam: Well, we're going just off the beaten track a bit here into a lovely pond area where, oh, it's it's actually, this is an outdoor classroom it says, so we'll go through this gate and walking up here, there's a good sized pond and a platform, I’ve lost the word, a wooden platform so you can sort of stand out a bit and it's here that we're hoping to see frogspawn, one of the early signs of spring, even though it's a bit chilly today. So we'll have a, yeah, I'm already getting a shake of the head so okay. Which is a shame, because it looks like there are no frogspawn here at the moment. So one of the early signs of spring is not here. But I suppose just the absence of that spring, is itself interesting, I mean, and in itself, one observation, of course, isn't scientifically significant, but actually, I think what is perhaps really important is that, global warming, changing seasons aren't linear. So we're also getting we may be getting an early spring, but also we're getting more volatile periods perhaps. So it's just up and down. And perhaps that's what we're seeing anyway. No, no frogspawn today. Let's move on.

Sally: It's an unusually hilly wood for Lincolnshire.

Adam: Yeah. Oh, right. Is Lincolnshire, meant to be fairly flat?

Sally: A lot of it's flat, yeah, but Grantham is on this, sort of geological feature called the Lincoln Edge, and it's sort of one big long hill that runs through the county, sort of south to north. And we just happened to be, have found it to climb.

Adam: Right. So what is the purpose of this then? Presumably it's partly scientific because you're getting data from a from a lot of people around the country. Is it something else apart from that?

Sally: Nature's Calendar as a project? Yeah, so, like you say, it's it's primarily it was set up to be a phenology project. So studying how the changing climate is affecting the changing seasonal events and affecting what time of year they occur. But it's also a really good opportunity for, because obviously it's volunteers that, you know, look out for these things and we need eyes and ears all over the country looking out for these things, and something that you get back from it as a volunteer, is that opportunity to have that bit of extra motivation to keep your eyes and ears out, looking at nature regularly, and with a sense of purpose to do that, which I think is a really good opportunity for people to, to help their own wellbeing. So it just kind of really fits well with what we know from research is, the way to get the most out of time in nature, which is using your senses to engage with it, finding meaning in it, and connecting with other people around it as well. So you become part of this, you know, community of people contributing and giving back as well. So you're providing your data that's, you know, an opportunity for you to, to contribute to something bigger than yourself and to, to have that sense of purpose, with what you're doing. So it just brings it more, yeah, it brings it alive for people, I think, because a walk in the woods, if you're not necessarily engaging with your surroundings, you could miss a lot of the beneficial species that that research showed when people engage with them, they really benefit from.

Adam: Brilliant.

Sally: I, I, one thing, oh, shall we sit on this log, that'd be a nice little, I mean, it looks a bit prickly around it, but nice to just sit and chat because we've had a lot of hills!

Adam: It does have a lot of, yeah, we have had a lot of hills.

Sally: So the research that the Woodland Trust funded, I just wanted to talk about what we're hoping to actually do with these findings and sort of why it's all important. So, the mapping that the researchers at the University of Kent have done, to identify those hotspots of, where woodlands are really rich in biodiversity and the biodiversity that people relate to for wellbeing experiences, it really it fits in with the Woodland Trust's focus on being really interested and driven to improve the quality of woodlands rather than just the quantity. So while we do need to increase woodland cover, as you know, just pure hectarage, we need more woodlands, it's really about the quality of those woodlands that we're creating and protecting and restoring woodlands that we already have. So this research really shows how it's important for people that the quality of woodlands is there. Just it just shows how important things like our new woodland creation guide are, which, set out guidelines for how to create a new woodland in a way that's most likely to help it develop into a woodland that's going to be thriving with wildlife in the future.

Adam: And what sort of person gets that guide, is that just for professional sort of people who are setting up massive woodlands across the country, or is it something you you might be able to do as a community project or if you've got a large bit of land yourself?

Sally: Yeah so it's available on our website so anybody can download it and it's aimed at anybody who's creating a woodland so the principles can be taken on board and scaled up or down to whatever's necessary. So, yeah, that's available on our website.

Adam: And, and in the time that, that this Nature's Calendar has been running, have you noticed any differences?

Sally: I've been with the Woodland Trust for five years, and so I've been recording frogspawn as my main…

Adam: That's your, that's your go to.

Sally: Yeah and I like it because it's very, well it's literally black and white *laughs*. You can, it's there or it's not there, one day it’s there. So…

Adam: And what, have you noticed anything in that time?

Sally: Yeah, in my, I mean, a five year span, I suppose there's, there's quite variation and this is obviously just my one record, so it's anecdotal but but there are analysis provided on the website of all the woodlands, the, the Nature's Calendar data and yeah, so I think the first time I recorded it was about 10 March, something like that. And in some years I've recorded it as early as Valentine's Day so that's already past now so this year is obviously a later one. So you know, it, it shows that there is that, the the data from Nature's Calendar is part of it contributes to the State of UK Climate report and the JNCC Spring Index, which is the kind of, the measure that they use to look at the effect of climate change on biodiversity.

Adam: Sorry what’s the JNCC?

Sally: JNCC is the… Joint Nature Conservation Council. That's probably, that might be wrong!

Adam: Maybe, something like that. We don't guarantee that by the way, if you're listening, it's just what we think. Anyway, okay, the JNCC…*both laugh*

Sally: It’s a sort of government organisation.

Adam: Doesn’t matter, I’m sure they're very important. Anyway, the JNCC, I interrupted your your train of thought. The JNCC says what?

Sally: The spring index has moved forwards by more than eight days over I think it's the last 30 years, I think is the data that they use.

Adam: And is that a lot? Is that significant? I'm not sure?

Sally: It's it's significant when you think that birds will time their nesting, to within a peak kind of abundance of caterpillars, which are all also dependent on the phenology of leaves emerging.

Adam: And an eight day difference makes a difference?

Sally: So yes, yes, studies of birds like blue tits, which we've said are, you know, so important for people's wellbeing to be able to see birds like that around, yeah studies have shown that they do suffer in years where, the, the leaves burst too early. That means the caterpillars come out too early, and then they are not in sync with that, pattern for when they're, raising their chicks in the nest because they need a huge amount of food to be able to raise to, to raise a clutch of, of chicks. And they do it over a spell of just, you know, 2 or 3 weeks. So a week is a big difference when you think that that’s...

Adam: Right so that makes it, okay, that's it in context. So they're they're really peak feeding for these young chicks is 2 or 3 weeks. So if, if spring is moving eight days that's over half your feeding time to get a sort of young chick away and stable, is actually there's no food. That's the difference between living and not living, presumably that's a big deal?

Sally: Yep, yeah, exactly. And you know, the sort of potential knock on consequences of food chains being disrupted could go much beyond there but I think there's a lot more that we don't know yet. And that's probably just as concerning as what we do know.

Adam: Okay, yeah, I didn't, I have to say when you say eight days over 30 years, I went, well, I don't know, how significant is that. But when you say they've only got two weeks to feed these chicks at their peak, that suddenly makes it much more worrying.

Sally: Yeah, absolutely.

Adam: Okay. All right we've had our little rest.

Sally: I think we're getting rained on now aren’t we.

Adam: Oh are we? Oh no.

Sally: I don’t know I thought I felt a few spots.

Adam: Right. Where to now? Now why am I asking you, you've no idea!

Sally: I think this takes us to, this takes us back.

Adam: You've no idea. I've got to stop asking you.

Sally: We, I can remember on the…

Adam: We're just going to go forward. And if you, if you find this at some future period, send our love to our families and loved ones.

Sally: Yeah we're still wandering.

Adam: Yeah we're wandering and we just left this under a tree.

Sally: Oh, yeah, I definitely felt rain.

Adam: Okay. A little bit more mud. Whoops. Yeah. My first slide. Oooh.

Sally: Oh look at these. Look at the snowdrops.

Adam: Oh yeah. Snowdrops.

Sally: Now that's a Nature's Calendar event that you can record. But because they're already out we've missed it.

Adam: Alright. Oh gosh I saw that little, there's loads of snowdrops! They're all over there. So that's an early sign of spring.

Sally: Yeah so next year you have to keep an eye out before, you know, in like January.

Adam: Oh so it's not a sign, it comes before spring really. The snowdrops end of winter really.

Sally: Yeah. Well, it all depends where you sort of draw the line, doesn't it? It's all a continuum, really.

Adam: Aren't they beautiful? Gosh.

Sally: And for Nature's Calendar what you, the the key point at which you know, okay, they're officially open is when the flower is actually open like that and you can see in the middle, not, just when they poke through and they're still closed like that one.

Adam: Right.

Sally: Yeah. That's a lovely display of them.

Adam: Yeah. All over. Look, they're on the other side of the path and all these brambles as well. Very nice. It's emerging now.

Sally: Top of the hill, can see, we've got a vantage point now, see where we are, out of the woods. Okay. I think that must be about their peak. You know, we're seeing them on their best, best few days.

Adam: So downhill now? He says hopefully.

Sally:  Yeah. Downward stretch.

Adam: Okay. All right. We're going downhill. And whoa ho ho ho ho ho ho! That's like the Vicar of Dibley when she just disappears down a hole, which is much, well it's not quite as dramatic as that, just my foot went into it, not my whole body, but, you know, I don't know if you can hear this, but there we are. It's going through my shoes. I’ve got wet feet. Whoa ho ho! *both laughing*

Sally: This is a wet bit. We should have brought some tarpaulin just to slide down this hill shouldn’t we.

Adam: Sorry? Whoa! Okay, we're all going over. Oh ho ho ho ho!

Sally: You’re doing the splits.

Adam: Give me a hand, I’ve got my legs going different directions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Whoa, oh whoa! *both laughing* Sorry! Sorry sorry sorry sorry about that.

Sally: Oh, dear. Perhaps this was a mistake.

Adam: It's not just me.

Sally: I wonder if there's such a thing as mud skis.

Adam: Yes. There we are. Go on then, so yeah, so what's the…

Sally: What, why, why does it all matter?

Adam: Why does it matter, all of this then?

Sally: Well, for the Woodland Trust, it's really important to our vision and our mission, we want to create a world where woods and trees thrive for people and for nature. And so there's been quite a lot of work looking at the ecosystem services that are provided by woodlands in terms of carbon and flooding and all of those sorts of things. And a lot of mapping work has been done already to help us prioritise, you know, where is it best to create, protect and restore woods to deliver those particular priorities of different ecosystem services? But this is the first time that human wellbeing has been kind of mapped in that way, to be able to provide insight into, you know, these are the areas that need to be targeted and prioritised to increase biodiversity, particularly in areas where people have not got such high quality woodlands to visit necessarily.

Adam: So an important piece of work scientifically, but a great thing for people to be involved in as well.

Sally: Exactly. And and another thing that was really an interesting finding, so the researchers analysed their map of woodland wellbeing quality against the indices of multiple deprivation, which is some socio-economic data that's in a sort of mapped, format. And they looked to see whether there was a relationship between the quality of woodlands in an area and the socio-economic status. And they found that there is a relationship. So unfortunately, areas which are have a lower socio-economic status also tend to have the lower quality woodlands, which is, you know, it's not fair. And it's, something that, you know, it's opened our eyes to that to now allow us to think about, you know, how is it best to to sort of consider that when we're targeting where to create woodlands and enhance biodiversity in general. So, so yeah, it's really important for people I think, this is this is a really important piece of work, to help us deliver for, for people and nature.

Adam: And if people want to get involved in spotting the early signs of spring, how should they do that?

Sally: You can go to the Woodland Trust website and go to Nature's Calendar, you'll find the link on there, and there'll be all the information there about how to sign up and what different events you can record and how to do it. Lots of information on the website. *dog barks*

Adam: Wonderful. We've got a keen dog who wants to get involved clearly as well. And so go to the Woodland Trust website and you can follow them on social media, Insta and the rest, no doubt as well. Thank you very much.

Sally: Thank you for coming on a walk with us.

Adam: Thank you. I returned to the car park muddier, a little wetter, but we have missed most of the rain so that is really good.

Sally: It’s just starting now. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to the Woodland Trust Woodland Walks. Join us next month when Adam will be taking another walk in the company of Woodland Trust staff, partners and volunteers. And don't forget to subscribe to the series on iTunes or wherever you're listening to us. And do give us a review and a rating. And why not send us a recording of your favourite Woodland Walk to be included in a future podcast? Keep it to a maximum of five minutes and please tell us what makes your woodland walk special or send us an email with details of your favourite walk and what makes it special to you. Send any audio files to podcast@woodlandtrust.org.uk and we look forward to hearing from you.

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